Pittsburgh Internet Dating Stories

So, Susan, whatever happened with online dating?

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 06 Feb 2008 | Tagged as: Happy Endings, Pittsburgh Observations, We Never Got Past Email

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I found a man willing to drive from Dayton, Ohio to Pittsburgh to see me, but I scared him off

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 30 Jan 2008 | Tagged as: He/She Said That?, We Never Got Past Email

8 Responses to “I found a man willing to drive from Dayton, Ohio to Pittsburgh to see me, but I scared him off”

1. on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:07 pm # Naomi
   
   

   You punctured his fantasy?

2. on 30 Jan 2008 at 5:46 pm # Scheherazade
   
   

   I was referred to your blog by one of your sources/commentators and have read through much of it. It has begun to resemble an outreach for personal advice and reassurance (as well as a “forum” for discussing the amusing quirks of the dating world). Having been single for most of my life and having gone through several periods of dating through classified ads as well as the internet personals, I will try to offer perspectives from the female point of view. Maybe some will prove useful.

   You are emerging from the relative “cocoon” of a 20-year marriage into what must appear, at first, to be a fantasyland of prospective romantic adventure and opportunity. The first few months of mainstream on-line dating for any reasonably articulate and attractive woman are sort of a honeymoon. You are the “fresh meat on the counter”, to put it bluntly, and, as such, will attract a large cadre of apparently earnest, desirable and compatible men. (In fact, being in the same geographic area and likely dating in a similar pool of educated and culturally sophisticated middle-aged men, I’ll bet you’ve been approached by most of the same guys as have myself and many of my female friends — a few of the local “MatchMen” are legendary in their relentless dating strategies).

   Eventually, as you sift through this embarrassment of riches, some disturbing trends will appear. You may wonder at first why so many paragons of masculine virtue are “available” (as in un-partnered and seemingly ripe for the plucking.) The truth is that most are NOT “available”, at least in the emotional sense. A distressing proportion of them have become serial browsers, always in pursuit of the “next best thing.” A few may be outright Casanovas, even truly malignant pathological Narcissists, but most are stretched out along a continuum ranging from benignly anxious social/sexual inepts to those who might look like excellent prospects but who are so badly damaged by uresolved issues with previous relationships that they are terrified of adult emotional intimacy and therefore prone to quickly cycling through partners to avoid commitment. Most are apt to be perpetually “available” to the next new woman on the dating site but perpetually “unavailable” to anyone (her included) over the long term. Though I’m reporting from the distaff side, I’m aware that this is also true as well of many women who advertise themselves as being allegedly “ISO” a long term partner.

   There have always been people like this in the population but the phenomenon of internet dating has, at least in my opinion, greatly accelerated and enabled this pattern of superficially and serially selecting, courting and discarding partners. The format also enables the creeping attenuation of narcissistic traits and patterns of behavior, especially among exceptionally gifted individuals (possessing high intelligence, athletic talents and/or physical beauty, etc.) who are susceptible to such tendencies anyway. Being able to obscure or inflate one’s identity online can also lead to both an unrealistic projection of self and an unrealistic idealization and objectification of one’s potential partners. Both mindframes get in the way of developing honest intimacy with another real person. (There are some very informative articles on the web about the relationship problems inflicted by various levels of narcissism — worth reading as cautionary preparation for encountering such individuals, which is inevitable in on-line dating. Not being sexist here, but it is an accepted clinical statistic that narcissism is 3 times more prevalent in men than women.)

   You will soon find two unfortunately common trends in the on-line dating world: the first is rapid focused infatuation (which your Dayton guy seems to have succumbed to) in which the dater develops premature romantic optimism about the object of his affections (often, before even meeting her face to face) and, hence, becomes inappropriately hurt and withdrawn at any sign of competition or lack of commensurate devotion on the part of the “beloved.” By telling him you were dating others you did indeed (as Naomi noted) “puncture his fantasy” of being the soulmate he had, per his “gut feelings”, miraculously discovered and to whom he had rendered himself vulnerable.

   The second “pathology” you will encounter is the more common variety of the “serialist” mentioned before. With these guys you will be subjected to a series of escalating scrutinies, based on their interior checklist of desirable features. Many will reject you on the first meeting, either overtly (by stating that you have some specific flaw, or more commonly, simply stating that they don’t feel any “chemistry”) or covertly, by being pleasant, even flirtacious, but then permanently disappearing from your radar after the first meeting.

   Others will date you from a few times to a few months, even initiating sexual intimacy or acting affectionately, before suddenly deciding that you somehow fail to satisfy some criteria and, rather abruptly, unilaterally ending the relationship. In virtually all cases, this will occur absent any discussion with you about your feelings or about prospects for the relationship. Beware the phrase “Where do you think we’re going?” This is, in virtually all cases, NOT an invitation to openly discuss mutual feelings and agree to what new level of intimacy the two of you might ascend in the relationship. In fact, the poser of this question is not really interested in your answer: he has already decided the non-negotiable answer and it is “Nowhere.” (though sometimes the poser will offer you the “consolation” prize of platonic friendship, more to ease his own conscience than to offer you solace.) You might take some solace, however, in realizing that you are likely being dismissed because you are substantial enough to pose a “threat” to his carefully guarded and overly prized emotional “self”, which he must hoard until the “perfect specimen” is located. And certainly there must be a more “perfect” specimen out there, just a lucky click away, amongst the 100’s, nay, millions of “available” women on the internet dating sites. And when he encounters Her, the heavens will open and he will fall effortless in love with Her and She with him and life will be sweet. Down deep, he may actually realize that, with a little mutual work and some genuine honesty and commitment, you could have been a great partner for him, but why settle for a “fixer-upper” when it’s so easy just to move on? He’s also likely subconsciously terrified of letting himself be vulnerable and risking being rejected so it’s easier to maintain control by rejecting you first.

   Pardon the sarcastic tone — I actually feel sorry for these guys because most of them have little or no chance of ever being really happy, i.e. becoming involved in the kind of mutually intimate and mature adult relationship they claim to desire. Most seem to either end up permanently lonely and embittered or they fall under the spell of demanding, emotionally volatile women who draw them into painfully destructive cycles of clinging and rejection (but that’s a whole other can of worms).

   Sorry this is so pessimistic. I do, indeed, know a few people who have met and mated well via on-line dating, but even they could tell you similar stories of having to endure the recurrent and sadly dysfunctional patterns I’ve related here before finding someone willing to explore an accepting and honest emotional connection with them.

   My advice: be cautious, be patient, be compassionate, be circumspect and be prepared to move on. And (hard as it may be), don’t take any rejection personally.

3. on 01 Feb 2008 at 6:59 am # BlueEyes1962
   
   

   Scheherazade

   Thanks for your thoughtful post. I shared it with a girlfriend of mine when we were out celebrating her promotion tonight. After 20+ years of marriage, “Sue” is in the process of getting divorced.

   Sue feels that there is probably a big difference between the mindset of someone who has been single most of their life, and someone who is recently free after a long marriage. The latter is not necessarily in such a rush to settle down permanently, and might even have some “serialist” tendencies themselves.

   After divorce, women tend to do better emotionally, and men tend to do worse. Our divorces have made us stronger and we relish our independence - and we are not willing to put up with any crap from would-be Casanovas, pathological Narcissists or anyone else. We’ve put up with enough crap from our exes and we’re done with that.

   When I started dating, I don’t remember signing any contracts or being given any guarantees. Dating (like employment in PA) is “at will” - either party can unilaterally end it at any time, for any reason, abruptly or not, with no more explanation than - “I don’t want to see you any more.” And my guess is it’s the woman who ends it as often as the man.

   But you are right - I’m new to all this and I have a lot to learn. Thanks for the advice and warning!

4. on 01 Feb 2008 at 3:03 pm # ADVENTUROUS
   
   

   Scheherazade’s comment was well written, but awfully pessimistic. My experience is more hopeful. I find internet dating to be a great learning experience: dating has helped me learn what women are like in all their wonderful variety, learn what characteristics are most important to me, learn more about myself, learn how people perceive me, what’s unique about me, and what are my rough edges. I’ve learned many things I hadn’t picked up during marriage.

   I don’t find internet dating to be a predictable parade of posers, players, or emotionally unavailable narcissists with a small canned set of outcomes, as Scheherazade suggests. But I haven’t lived this from the female side; maybe it’s different for women?

   My experience is that there is a huge range of women out there. Yes, there are some patterns — there are a lot of People-Magazine-reading, Steeler-watching yinzers, and almost everybody is miraculously “slim”, “athletic”, or “normal” in body type in their profiles. But when you meet them, every woman is unique. Because personalities and life experiences differ so much, and motivations differ so much — the full range from nymphomaniacs to groom-seekers to not-sure-what-they-want — it is hard to make generalities. Partly because of this variety, I have found that in almost all cases, I can learn something from each encounter. In BlueEyes’ case, maybe she learns that guys that come on too strong, like Mr. Dayton, are likely harboring unrealistic fantasies, for example.

   So my experience is not that there are a lot of women following a script or playing a game, but rather that they are often just as curious, just as confused, just as vulnerable, just as overwhelmed by the dating process as me.

   Unless your standards are really low, very few “connections” have the potential to evolve into an LTR. If you expect dating to be easy, you’ve been watching too many eHarmony commercials. The internet dating companies aren’t going to tell you this, but my personal experience is that you can expect to go on dates with something like 50 or 100 people before you find Mr. or Ms. Right. It’s not an easy process, but at least it’s fun, much of the time.

5. on 01 Feb 2008 at 5:59 pm # Scheherazade
   
   

   Adventurous,

   Wow, to admit to personally dating “50 to 100 women” as an attempted rebuttal to a post on male “serial daters.” What time frame are we talking here? Is this like a hobby for you? Either there weren’t a lot of repeat dates (which would suggest you’re not looking too deeply at anyone) or you’re a pretty busy boy. Some of us have to work for a living.

   A question: how many of the 49 to 99 “Ms. Wrongs” felt that your dating and evidently rejecting them was “fun, much of the time”? Though I’m sure there were many mutual rejections and some who found you not up to their own expectations, those high numbers seem to suggest that you’re either awfully indiscriminate in your choice of women to date or extremely overpicky in your requirements for “Ms. Right” (speaking of “unrealistic fantasies”). Or maybe unwilling to really get involved with anyone? Do you suppose you might have broken any of those 49 to 99 hearts? Or does that not matter to you? How much effort did you honestly put into making any of those many “connections” long term? You stress what you’ve “learned” about yourself and what you supposedly want. What have the women you’ve dated learned from you during your self-proclaimed educational journey through their ranks?

   In the end, has this methodical process of elimination finally landed you the ultimate “Ms. Right”? Such that you would confidently recommend to all of us a “numbers game” of dating “50 to 100″ people? Or have there been several “Ms. Rights” but none of them lasted for some reason? No matter — plenty more where they came from, right?

   I rest my case.

   S.

6. on 02 Feb 2008 at 4:36 pm # Resigned
   
   

   Over the years, I tried multiple dating sites, corresponded via email w/hundreds, IM’d many, spoke on the phone to at least 45 men, and met at least 30 live, so I speak with some experience.

   I’ve really lost all interest in this way of meeting men. I did online dating for 5 years, and found it a most unnatural and weird way to meet a mate - no point of reference for the any guy you meet online - as far as I am concerned it’s a crap shoot. I was not a winner.

   I don’t ever see me going back. With the time investment, it became like a job, very mechanical, and became the same old as far as replies, letdowns and ‘dates’. A lot of energy w/no fruits. I would never discourage anyone from venturing down this road, you may be a lucky winner. I know several couples personally that have met this way who now are life partners.

   Resigned

7. on 03 Feb 2008 at 8:24 am # treefrog
   
   

   The dating process takes patience and persistence. I don’t find it that fun, though. It’s hard work! Often frustrating! You have to email a lot of women to get one reply, and most of those don’t lead anywhere: the woman insists on 6′4″+, or she’s not ready for commitment, or she’s a fundamentalist Christian, or she has four teenage sons who all play ice hockey, or she stops emailing inexplicably … If you get a wink, a lot of the time it’s a Russian bride scammer or a West Virginia hick. When you find a woman worth meeting, sometimes she reminds you of your ex so much it sends chills down your spine, other times she’s just plain psycho.

   I’m not sure how many dates it takes to meet your “soulmate”. What constitutes a date, anyway? Does meeting for coffee count? Some women say it’s only a date if the man pays. Weird definition. You have to pace your dating. Remember Cutie (Jan 5 blog) who claimed to date 20 guys a week? That would drive anyone crazy.

8. on 29 Mar 2008 at 6:58 pm # NetDatingPro
   
   

   I’ve had some experiences like this Blue Eyes-men that seem so engaged initially and for some reason or another quickly fall off the planet (maybe they all go to the same place). But I have had the reverse happen as well. A few months ago I had a man from Atlanta write me and by the second e-mail came nothing short of professing his love to me, saying he would fly up here, blah blah blah… even after I had told him I wasn’t interested. It frightened me a little (because I have been stalked before- nothing that escalated to a criminal stage but knowing the guy, certainly could have) so I hid my profile for a while. Don’t know if other women have had that experience.

   I do agree with Resigned about it feeling a little mechanical, and considering I’m looking for a never married, no children, professional with a solvent job (like me), the only men writing me have been married, have children, might be unemployed or the like, I’m taking a break. It appears none of the men read the “her ideal match” section. It is a lot of hard work like treefrog says. You do have to pace yourself-in the past dating 2 guys at the same time was about as much as I could handle although I might be talking to 2 or 3 more at the same time. I could never do what Cutie mentions, dating 20 a week-my job does not afford me time to do that!

   So in total I’ve probably met with somewhere between 50 and 75 men, and corresponded in short fashion with maybe 50 more, but that is spread over a decade. But I really have no other way to meet men with 12-16 hour days and lot of travel. I have tried It’s Just Lunch which was disappointing to say the least even apart from the fact that it was pricey. I can’t even use e-Harmony because they rejected me (I’m one out of every 5 people they can’t match), multiple specialty websites, set ups by family, friends and even by people I don’t know well. I have also been to 40-50 weddings (about 3-5 a year, I have a lot of friends) so I don’t believe that you can meet people at weddings, I’ve tried. I’ve also been speed dating, joined different singles groups so no one can say that I haven’t been trying. I have reasons to be a little choosy but I think all women should have some reasons to be choosy. I used to think it was me that was the problem and looking at my stats, I guess most would say that. But my friends just recently described me as “lovely, compassionate, outgoing” (one of those e-mail forwards) so I would think those would be desirable qualities. I could never be with someone I didn’t respect or admire and wasn’t attracted to in the first place-that would make for a relationship without passion in my opinion which is never a good thing.

   I am taking a break from this method, but if anyone else has any winning ideas, I’ll obviously try them, since I’ve tried everything else. Online dating is obviously the best way to meet a large amount of people. I realize this was a really rambling post but I’ve been burned several times in a short period of time so I’ve pretty much lost all my confidence (of which I actually had a lot). It felt good to write this all down!

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CHARMING to Young Hopeful: “Give me your mother’s # so I can tell her what you’re up to”

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 18 Jan 2008 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

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39-year-old Man’s rant to older Woman: “Good for you, stick with the old dudes”

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 16 Jan 2008 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

10 Responses to “39-year-old Man’s rant to older Woman: “Good for you, stick with the old dudes””

1. on 16 Jan 2008 at 3:58 pm # Anonymous
   
   

   can we really explain all the assholes in the world???im a 54 yr old man that dates…my kids are grown..and i seem to be doing ok after hours…if dr dimwit with no life ,other than his own egotistical self centered cant even get a date with an older woman and then blames everybody for it loser is having troubles….well GOOD…i like my chances even more with fools like him out there…i do take issue with the “liberal”label allocated to this idiot,however…

2. on 16 Jan 2008 at 4:34 pm # speakeasy
   
   

   It’s the anonymity factor at work again. People feel they can say anything they please because they’re not face-to-face with the other person.

   As to the reply: don’t waste your time. If you answer, he’ll like it.

3. on 16 Jan 2008 at 4:53 pm # Anonymous
   
   

   I think it’s shortman syndrome…or maybe short everything syndrome.

4. on 16 Jan 2008 at 6:57 pm # Writer
   
   

   I took a fun break from writing a proposal to think about your question! Here’s my theory: I think younger guys who pursue older women are looking for a woman who has resolved her own life issues, and is at a stage where she’s able and willing to be a superb listener for them. These relationships usually end up being more about the guy than the woman. If it becomes more about the woman, they usually split.

   Re: the doc—-he has such huge anger issues and self-esteem issues, I’d run in the other direction!

5. on 16 Jan 2008 at 10:43 pm # Betty Sue
   
   

   Look out for someone on Match named r——e, he’s 36-38, forget. lol!

   I have been pursued by younger men, prob for a variety of reasons…. diff things motivate diff men and women, but my exp w/younger men is generally too immature and not the greatest fit.

   someone closest to your age (give or take 5 yrs either way), is usually most suited for obvious reasons.

   Since my divorce tho, I have only dated younger men, never searched for it, just happened. I’ve had good and bad experiences for a variety of reasons.

   At this point, after everything said or done, I’d find someone closest to my age, more in common and the chances of staying together over the long haul are much greater. ………. my 2 cents worth.

6. on 17 Jan 2008 at 3:28 am # Resigned
   
   

   Any man/doctor who takes to time to reply like he did (rant) and the length that that he did, has WAY too much time on his hands, relies on Internet dating too much, doesn’t roll w/the punches, takes himself too seriously and this type of dating service way too seriously.

   He’s probably been online surf-dating for a good while.

   After 7 yrs worth (on and off) of ‘looking’ for a man through Internet dating services, (how bout a nice evening out that would include a second date) via the computer screen, I’d summarize it like this - it’s al ot of work, interviewing, reaching out, flying blind and living on the hope that you might be the fortunate one to meet someone that you hit it off with.

   I know of 8 relationships in my friendship circle where people met their mates that way. I did not have that good fortune.

   I am no longer pro-actively looking for a mate that way, but I am always amused to hear all the stories, which by the way, are mostly similar.

7. on 17 Jan 2008 at 3:41 am # Anonymous
   
   

   Doctor38 does not deal with rejection too well.

8. on 17 Jan 2008 at 11:42 pm # Fred Jr
   
   

   Anonymous said “I think it’s shortman syndrome”. But a woman friend of mine who has dated a wide variety of men swears that the tall ones are typically the assholes: they’re cockier, less honest, more selfish, and more controlling, while shorter men are kinder, more generous, and easier to get along with. She figured that the short ones have to work harder to get ahead in the world, the same way beautiful women can get away with being bitches more easily than ordinary-looking women.

9. on 22 Jan 2008 at 3:52 am # bctsurgeon
   
   

   I actually think that was a funny answer… And you know what, DOctor38 is quite right. Foxy should not be mad, but thankfull to the guy for saying the truth that nobody else have the guts to say. Maybe he does have the short man syndrome, or maybe he does have problems with rejection (who doesn’t?), but Foxy must have her own problems. After all if she was so secure of her choices, why getting so anoyed over an answer from a stranger?????

10. on 06 Jun 2008 at 5:08 pm # NetDatingPro
    
    

    I’m loving this thread. I’ve had the flip side happen-much older men write me who think they can whisk me away on a boat to some far-off isle. One man, despite my courteous and honest answer of pointing out the age difference(almost 20 years) and a few other things which would have been glaring incompatibilities proceeded to list me 10 statistics on dating in the millenium and that I was ruling out way too many men and would end up alone. Nice, huh? I appreciate the fact these men are trying to give me advice (note the sarcasm).

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Maybe Careful Reading of Online Dating Profiles Can’t Weed Out all the Pittsburgh Psychos

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 13 Jan 2008 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

One response to “Maybe Careful Reading of Online Dating Profiles Can’t Weed Out all the Pittsburgh Psychos”

1. on 14 Jan 2008 at 2:24 pm # Cyndi
   
   

   Wow, Sophie has a few screws loose! It’s like she was arguing with herself. Tnx for sharing that, Pittprof!

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Online Dating: How Honest Should You Be When You Say “No Thanks”

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 04 Jan 2008 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

4 Responses to “Online Dating: How Honest Should You Be When You Say “No Thanks””

1. on 04 Jan 2008 at 5:20 am # ADVENTUROUS
   
   

   When it’s been the woman calling it off, not me, half the time they’ll typically say something very vague like “we’re not a match; good luck”. I prefer it when they give me some reason, because then there’s more closure to it and it can resolve nagging doubts. Some of the reasons I’ve heard:

   * We’re not a match because I want kids and you don’t.
   * I don’t think that we are truly a match because I can be a very emotional person who wants a lot of feedback. … And your being atheist is a problem …
   * Thanks … but unfortunately, we’re just not a good match. Our profiles didn’t match on: Age, Physical Attraction.
   * I don’t think we’d be a good long term, romantic fit … and it seems you’re not over your divorce.
   * Thanks … but unfortunately, we’re just not a good match. Our profiles didn’t match on: Values.
   * Sorry, an atheist is not OK.
   * Yes, your atheism would be a problem for me…I wish you well.
   * Your ex-wife was very unhappy and communicated to me. I think it would be too hard for me to get past that. Sorry.
   * We’re not a match because age difference is too great.
   * We’re not a match because I dislike kids.
   * The gap between my Greek Orthodox and your atheism is too large, but I still think you’re great and any time you feel like bashing our potato head president, feel free to email me!
   * I enjoyed meeting you, but as I wasn’t feeling a “romantic vibe,” I’m going to decline your invitation to meet up again.

2. on 04 Jan 2008 at 12:10 pm # Jay
   
   

   There are no overreactions, only reactions. Teacher51 just got defensive, and PittProf carried on the exchange longer than necessary. However, he was able to elicit some unintentional ironic humor, and for that we are all grateful.

3. on 04 Jan 2008 at 3:02 pm # jbusch
   
   

   No, really, that teach is totally defensive, and got pretty ranty for no reason. Just because someone winked at you doesn’t mean you owe them anything…even a chance. I think that’s supposed to be the liberating part of online dating. No strings attached, window shopping OK kinda thing.

   I think the professor dude was sufficiently tactful, the “Yes. I don’t really know why, but details like that are important to me. Good luck.” comment said, essentially “Yeah, I’ve got this weird quirk. I don’t know what’s up with that, sorry, it’s me not you.” But then the chick was all accusatory, essentially calling him a bigot or a sexist or what have you. He didn’t really attack her level of education, but she responded with:

   “I happen to have three degrees and I am very well educated.”

   I think it’s a certain amount of carelessness that might be the turn off. I allow typos to slide in emails and such, but for semi-permanent stuff like a profile, you may as well take the extra 5 seconds to clean it up. You can have a Ph.D. and still be lazy.

4. on 06 Jun 2008 at 5:15 pm # NetDatingPro
   
   

   Yes, the teacher did get very defensive. In my opinion, if you can avoid it, don’t tell the person exactly why you don’t think you are a good match with him/her because one can take that very personally-it’s pointing out a unique (or not so unique) flaw. If you’re not interested, it might be nicer to stay vague “for various reasons, I…” and most of the time the other person doesn’t write back or thanks you for responding at all. Just my 10 cents’ worth. (I’m accounting for inflation, gas prices, etc.)

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The Email Drill: Are You a Fake Nail or Acrylic Nail Person?

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 12 Dec 2007 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

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I am an attractive 30 year old female searching for a well to do gentleman.

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 01 Dec 2007 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

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I’m sending this straight from my heart to yours

Posted by BlueEyes1962 on 26 Nov 2007 | Tagged as: We Never Got Past Email

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